"’Tis an absolute and, as it were, a divine perfection, for a man to know how loyally to enjoy his being. We seek other conditions, by reason we do not understand the use of our own; and go out of ourselves, because we know not how there to reside. ’Tis to much purpose to go upon stilts, for, when upon stilts, we must yet walk with our legs; and, when seated upon the most elevated throne in the world, we are but seated upon our breech." — Michel de Montaigne, Essays, "Of Experience"
I like the contemporary translations floating around the web
"even on the highest throne in the world, we still sit on our ass"
The most striking things to me when I started reading the Essays, is how much it reads like... A blog.
Variety of topics, general consistency of theme, a tone that is surprisingly conversationnal... And the bombardment of references, in jokes, quotes, etc... that you use to create connivence with your reader.
Also, in the end, if you were asked what Montaigne was famous for, what he actually did, _beyond writing his blog_, you would be... hard pressed to answer.
Still, I would probably lurk his substack, and watch his stand up on Instagram.
> The most striking things to me when I started reading the Essays, is how much it reads like... A blog.
This is somewhat deceptive. The Essais were very personal, but not spontaneous at all. He spent a lot of time polishing them and rewriting them right until he died. Just like Rabelais, the apparent casual tone of the language is actually quite a lot of work.
In comparison, blog posts are quick to post and then just left as they are. They are closer to letters in that respect.
One of the most life altering essays I’ve ever read is Montaigne’s To Philosophize Is To Die (https://hyperessays.net/essays/to-philosophize-is-to-learn-t...) where he lays out the principle of memento mori (“remember to die”). Fear of death is often very debilitating, and a topic we all like to avoid but we all have to deal with it, sooner or later. The sooner you accept it, the freer (and happier) you’ll feel.
Agreed - how it contextualizes the time and place for Montaigne when writing the essays is invaluable to understanding the essays and how he changes over time.
This is very much modern French. Anything written after 1650 is easy to understand by the average French person and anything written after 1800 is indistinguishable from how French is written nowadays.
A good edition to own is the beautiful hardcover edition published by Everyman's Library titled Michel de Montaigne The Complete Works Essays Travel journal Letters and translated by Donald Frame - http://www.everymanslibrary.co.uk/classics-author.aspx?lette...
There is already the excellent Screech translation and Frame translation(which seems popular with Americans) available, how is this different apart from being online.
Monsieur de Montaigne’s observations are highly above the average as concerns wealthy people advising everyone what to do with a nobleman’s time and resources.
As a new magistrate or nobleman it’s a decent place to start winding up with something better than a Tesla and a Substack advising people how to inherit a monopoly.
But for us plebs, it’s about as compelling as any other bunch of dandies on a tennis court.
Hard disagree. His thoughts are so rich and varied that it's harsh to classify them under "blogs for wealthy people". He speaks about death, self worth, many other things that speak to anyone.
I myself said that de Montaigne is pretty good stuff as this sort of thing goes.
But the kind of agency attached to being quasi-Royal wealthy in the mid-sixteenth century France is not terribly useful to anyone under crushing debt peonage then, nor it’s resurgent beginning comeback now.
For truly catholic stoicism there are better sources. If I want to hear someone talk about inner will from atop a mountain I’ll go all the way back to Marcus Aurelius.
It’s good to see that Randian Objectivists are diversifying out of such a shitty brand, but it’s all boomers and their bootstraps to me, and I’ve read fucking ALL of it. Twice.
I’m almost done with Book 1, and so far at least 85% applies to anyone:
don't be idle, don't lie,
don't make hasty decisions,
build up your willpower,
be courageous,
be present,
do what you say you will do,
challenge customs (because people tend to choose custom over reason),
learn through experience,
be present,
life is a delicate balance,
and about 50 more
Okay I’ll bite. The essay on raising children piqued my interest. The first two paragraphs:
> I never yet saw that father, but let his son be never so decrepit or deformed, would not, notwithstanding, own him: not, nevertheless, if he were not totally besotted, and blinded with his paternal affection, that he did not well enough discern his defects: but that with all defaults, he was still his. Just so, I see better than any other, that all I write here are but the idle reveries of a man that has only nibbled upon the outward crust of sciences in his nonage, and only retained a general and formless image of them; who has got a little snatch of everything and nothing of the whole, à la Françoise.
This does not seem “updated” or “modern”.
Updating these old texts seems like a perfect use case for AI. Let’s give GPT 4o a shot:
> I have never seen a father, no matter how frail or deformed his son may be, who would not still claim him as his own. Yet, unless completely blinded by paternal affection, the father is fully aware of his son’s flaws. Despite those shortcomings, the son remains his child. In the same way, I am more aware than anyone else that what I write here is nothing more than the idle musings of someone who, in his youth, only skimmed the surface of knowledge. I have retained only a vague and incomplete impression of the sciences, having dabbled a little in everything but mastered nothing—true to the French way.
> I am slowly replacing the Cotton/Hazlitt translation with a contemporary one and adding new notes
So I would assume that the essay you're talking about is from the earlier Cotton translation and has still not been replaced.
This is the first time I've seen AI being used to "modernize" old texts, and it works wonderfully in this case; though a bit of the old-timey charm is lost imo. I used to read a translation that I'd found in my university library which I enjoyed a lot. Very readable but still retained the "feel" of a 16th century book. I don't recall the translator unfortunately.
Totally right. The art and science of translation is an age-old debate and where AI isn’t super well suited. We’re not at a point where it ends up more than a summary but the point is the proper “translation” of the tone, subtle intent and idiosyncrasies of the author. That said, most human translators take license (e.g. The Bible) and how do we counterweight against their flaws, so there’s not a great answer here.
Except I hope the guy works through it and does a good job cause the original is a bit of a slog!
Unfortunately I still have a soft spot for beautiful writing. The "point" often sticks better when it is expressed eloquently. Having to think a little bit to get to the point also helps with absorbing it, at least in my experience.
Did you translate the original French to modern English or modernize the new translation?
I wonder how those would compare. Translating the original would probably be the 'correct' thing to do, from a literary point of view. Poses some interesting question, though.
For a non native English speaker the "translation" is much more readable and can convey more information to me. The old text is kind of comprehensible to me, but I have to read really slow, re-read parts and think a lot to understand.
Thank you for your efforts.
One of my favorite quotes of all time:
"’Tis an absolute and, as it were, a divine perfection, for a man to know how loyally to enjoy his being. We seek other conditions, by reason we do not understand the use of our own; and go out of ourselves, because we know not how there to reside. ’Tis to much purpose to go upon stilts, for, when upon stilts, we must yet walk with our legs; and, when seated upon the most elevated throne in the world, we are but seated upon our breech." — Michel de Montaigne, Essays, "Of Experience"
I like the contemporary translations floating around the web "even on the highest throne in the world, we still sit on our ass"
Notice that the original does not mince words : "Et au plus eslevé throne du monde, si ne sommes assis que sus notre cul".
Just to clarify this isn't my own work, I just found it online by accident.
If you wish to thank/support this project and it's creator you should check out the support page: https://hyperessays.net/support/
Great effort !
The most striking things to me when I started reading the Essays, is how much it reads like... A blog.
Variety of topics, general consistency of theme, a tone that is surprisingly conversationnal... And the bombardment of references, in jokes, quotes, etc... that you use to create connivence with your reader.
Also, in the end, if you were asked what Montaigne was famous for, what he actually did, _beyond writing his blog_, you would be... hard pressed to answer.
Still, I would probably lurk his substack, and watch his stand up on Instagram.
> The most striking things to me when I started reading the Essays, is how much it reads like... A blog.
This is somewhat deceptive. The Essais were very personal, but not spontaneous at all. He spent a lot of time polishing them and rewriting them right until he died. Just like Rabelais, the apparent casual tone of the language is actually quite a lot of work.
In comparison, blog posts are quick to post and then just left as they are. They are closer to letters in that respect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprezzatura was all the rage in the 16th century
I had the pleasure of reading Montaigne before blogs were invented.
When I started reading blogs, the format reminded me of his essays.
One of the most life altering essays I’ve ever read is Montaigne’s To Philosophize Is To Die (https://hyperessays.net/essays/to-philosophize-is-to-learn-t...) where he lays out the principle of memento mori (“remember to die”). Fear of death is often very debilitating, and a topic we all like to avoid but we all have to deal with it, sooner or later. The sooner you accept it, the freer (and happier) you’ll feel.
This book
How to Live: A Life of Montaigne in one question and twenty, by Sarah Bakewell (2011)
is an incredible introduction to Montaigne. I greatly enjoyed it and recommend it fondly to anyone's interested in the man or what he had to say.
Agreed - how it contextualizes the time and place for Montaigne when writing the essays is invaluable to understanding the essays and how he changes over time.
A translation into modern French might be an interesting addition.
Here it is, 1907: https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Essais/%C3%A9dition_Michaud,_...
EDIT: my bad, this is not modern French
Looks like the left column is Middle French, the right one is the modern translation.
This is very much modern French. Anything written after 1650 is easy to understand by the average French person and anything written after 1800 is indistinguishable from how French is written nowadays.
A good edition to own is the beautiful hardcover edition published by Everyman's Library titled Michel de Montaigne The Complete Works Essays Travel journal Letters and translated by Donald Frame - http://www.everymanslibrary.co.uk/classics-author.aspx?lette...
The Donald frame translation is lovely. It’s a shame it’s not in the public domain.
Ask and ye shall receive ;-)
https://archive.org/details/MontaigneCompleteFrame/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/MontaigneCompleteFrame/Montaigne%...
This is the translation I was referring to in a previous comment! Interesting how it has been brought up twice in a single thread.
I wonder which joker tagged the language as Norwegian.
is that public domain though?
W. Carew Hazlitt’s 1877 update of Charles Cotton’s translation is on Project Gutenberg if you prefer, as I do, an epub copy.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3600
Here are his works on Wikisources (in 7 languages, public domain): https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Michel_de_Montaigne
http://xtf.bvh.univ-tours.fr/xtf/view?docId=tei/B330636101_S...
Pro tip:
For a better reading experience.If you're on Arc and have Boosts, I also recommend a darker background.
There is already the excellent Screech translation and Frame translation(which seems popular with Americans) available, how is this different apart from being online.
What if a boxer learns some sort of visual prompt injections to increase the hit rate. Like punching past people a heads
I've been working on writing essays to process my thinking for the last few months. Glad to see this be on #1 of `new`.
He did not write it for others to read. Please respect his privacy and don't read them.
Monsieur de Montaigne’s observations are highly above the average as concerns wealthy people advising everyone what to do with a nobleman’s time and resources.
As a new magistrate or nobleman it’s a decent place to start winding up with something better than a Tesla and a Substack advising people how to inherit a monopoly.
But for us plebs, it’s about as compelling as any other bunch of dandies on a tennis court.
I think philosophy works when you have money, as well when you don't.
Or rather, only good philosophy works also when you don't have money and I enjoyed Montaigne a lot, when I was backpacking without money.
You want some carcinogenic French thought? May I introduce you to Julien Offray de La Mettrie.
Hard disagree. His thoughts are so rich and varied that it's harsh to classify them under "blogs for wealthy people". He speaks about death, self worth, many other things that speak to anyone.
I myself said that de Montaigne is pretty good stuff as this sort of thing goes.
But the kind of agency attached to being quasi-Royal wealthy in the mid-sixteenth century France is not terribly useful to anyone under crushing debt peonage then, nor it’s resurgent beginning comeback now.
For truly catholic stoicism there are better sources. If I want to hear someone talk about inner will from atop a mountain I’ll go all the way back to Marcus Aurelius.
It’s good to see that Randian Objectivists are diversifying out of such a shitty brand, but it’s all boomers and their bootstraps to me, and I’ve read fucking ALL of it. Twice.
I’m almost done with Book 1, and so far at least 85% applies to anyone:
don't be idle, don't lie, don't make hasty decisions, build up your willpower, be courageous, be present, do what you say you will do, challenge customs (because people tend to choose custom over reason), learn through experience, be present, life is a delicate balance, and about 50 more
It’s a lot of very bright folks on HN, and very well read.
But this stuff at this stage of the game is somewhere between propaganda and Stockholm’s Syndrome.
Hackers have never been paid less, or had worse job security, or been more subject to being fucked with than in decades.
Getting funding or traction or press or customers has never been more insular and nepotistic and corrupt and numb in decades.
There is a season for de Montaigne and there is a season for Thomas Paine.
Okay I’ll bite. The essay on raising children piqued my interest. The first two paragraphs:
> I never yet saw that father, but let his son be never so decrepit or deformed, would not, notwithstanding, own him: not, nevertheless, if he were not totally besotted, and blinded with his paternal affection, that he did not well enough discern his defects: but that with all defaults, he was still his. Just so, I see better than any other, that all I write here are but the idle reveries of a man that has only nibbled upon the outward crust of sciences in his nonage, and only retained a general and formless image of them; who has got a little snatch of everything and nothing of the whole, à la Françoise.
This does not seem “updated” or “modern”.
Updating these old texts seems like a perfect use case for AI. Let’s give GPT 4o a shot:
> I have never seen a father, no matter how frail or deformed his son may be, who would not still claim him as his own. Yet, unless completely blinded by paternal affection, the father is fully aware of his son’s flaws. Despite those shortcomings, the son remains his child. In the same way, I am more aware than anyone else that what I write here is nothing more than the idle musings of someone who, in his youth, only skimmed the surface of knowledge. I have retained only a vague and incomplete impression of the sciences, having dabbled a little in everything but mastered nothing—true to the French way.
Much better!
The author of the website has mentioned that
> I am slowly replacing the Cotton/Hazlitt translation with a contemporary one and adding new notes
So I would assume that the essay you're talking about is from the earlier Cotton translation and has still not been replaced.
This is the first time I've seen AI being used to "modernize" old texts, and it works wonderfully in this case; though a bit of the old-timey charm is lost imo. I used to read a translation that I'd found in my university library which I enjoyed a lot. Very readable but still retained the "feel" of a 16th century book. I don't recall the translator unfortunately.
Totally right. The art and science of translation is an age-old debate and where AI isn’t super well suited. We’re not at a point where it ends up more than a summary but the point is the proper “translation” of the tone, subtle intent and idiosyncrasies of the author. That said, most human translators take license (e.g. The Bible) and how do we counterweight against their flaws, so there’s not a great answer here.
Except I hope the guy works through it and does a good job cause the original is a bit of a slog!
Old timey charm is overrated. I want to get to the point.
The use of AI here is really cool and I hope to see it applied to other older tomes
Unfortunately I still have a soft spot for beautiful writing. The "point" often sticks better when it is expressed eloquently. Having to think a little bit to get to the point also helps with absorbing it, at least in my experience.
Well nobody is saying to incinerate the originals
Did you translate the original French to modern English or modernize the new translation?
I wonder how those would compare. Translating the original would probably be the 'correct' thing to do, from a literary point of view. Poses some interesting question, though.
For a non native English speaker the "translation" is much more readable and can convey more information to me. The old text is kind of comprehensible to me, but I have to read really slow, re-read parts and think a lot to understand.
I disagree. This sucks.
It is like repainting La Joconde
name checks out
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